Barkhane: in 2020 “a very positive assessment” even if “everything remains fragile” according to General Lecointre
French General François Lecointre returned on December 12 from a two-day inspection visit to Niger and Mali, his seventh visit to the Barkhane Force’s Operational Theater. The Chief of Staff of the Armed Forces went to meet French soldiers and their partners from the Malian armed forces. The possibility of an overview of military operations one month before the anniversary of the Pau summit, 13 January, when a change in the format of French intervention could be announced. General François Lecointre is a guest at RFI.
RFI: You have just returned from an inspection visit to the Barkhane Theater,French army operation in the Sahel and Sahara. RFI was by your side. We could see English pilots in Gao, Estonian soldiers. We also know that the Americans are present together with the French. Can we say that France is no longer alone in the Sahel?
General François Lecointre:France is doing everything it can to be as little military alone as possible in the Sahel, which is not necessarily very simple, not given the Americans who are consistently and for a long time well aware of. It is in our interest that we fight the terrorist threat here in the Sahel. And because it is a priority for American defense, they are very supportive of us. On the other hand, Europeans’ involvement is something completely new, especially in the area of operations known as kinetics, that is, the fact of going into combat. Europeans have now been involved since 2012, in a training mission of the Malian army and this is the first time thanks to Takuba[force européenne] that we can train Europeans to take part in missions that involve risk, and that is quite positive. It is still progressive, we must continue to work on this. But in any case, I think it gives us a pretty favorable view. In my opinion, there are several benefits to internationalizing things and doing so with Europeans. The first is to share the burden, because it is an economic burden, it is a burden of risks, it is a burden of political responsibility, to share it with the Europeans, to draw them to something that allows them to become aware of the Europeans of a kind of common destiny in an area where there are risks. Then it is effective to be more effective with malians.
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One year ago, during the Pau summit, France decided to send a reinforcement of 600additional men in Barkhane. What conclusions do you draw from this activity year?
I believe the whole balance sheet will be drawn and the President of the Republic will draw it right on the anniversary of the Pau summit. What I observe is that the effort we made was 600 people, but in the field of operational capacity there are more than 600 people and it must be measured that way. We went from 4,500 to 5,100, but in fact we have a staff base that is committed to support assignments, basic protection, health support, logistics that are in any case uncompressible because we are deployed on several rights. This base actually decreases in proportion to the strength in general when we have at least these numbers. So the 600 extra staff we hired were directly with the operational staff, engaged in the field of combat operations, for support operations for our partners in Mali, Niger or the joint force G5 or Burkinabè. So this has been a completely remarkable efficiency increase factor. And today, what I observe is that the enemy has been disorganized in Liptako, he no longer has the free disposal of this enormous space, he can no longer control the population as he does. did; their logistics were disorganized, their command weakened and they caused significant losses; and at the same time we approved and allowed the return of the Malian unit and the Nigerian unit which would take back a certain number of places which they had abandoned because there had been massacres of full garrisons. So for me at a strictly military level, it is a very positive result, even if everything is obviously fragile. But today it is a very positive result.
Barkhane, it’s a little more than 5000 men today. Can its format be changed? Are the results sufficient to reduce the workforce or is it too early?
First, Barkhane’s format is constantly evolving. And beyond the format, there is, for example, implementation of Barkhane. Are we on more bases or less in Mali? Are we making an effort in another country? Because I remind you that Barkhane is not distributed in Mali. So it’s not just about staffing. And I will not answer your question because it is a question that emerges from a political election that will be informed by the vision that I will give to the President of the Republic and to the Minister of Operations. In any case, Barkhane must be developed. There must be movement, we must train our partners in a dynamic that moves them towards more autonomy for the partner forces and towards more commitment for the European forces.
The common commitment in combat that you have just mentioned is what happened a few weeks ago with Operation Bourrasque, which succeeded in Liptako. Is this a way to upgrade partner armies?
It is first and foremost a way to give them confidence and that is important, because we must give success to partner armies. Then there is obviously a way to take them to exclusive operational levels. And so it contributes to empowerment. Now that is not enough, because the reality of this joint operational commitment is that it has no effect on what is the organic basis of the armies, their daily function: recruitment, daily training. And it is not Barkhane who can do it today. Rather, it is EUTM [mission européenne de formation de l’armée malienne] and it is a work that we must lean on and that we accentuate because the capacity for autonomy in conflict with these armies will be based as much on their organic power-taking as on what they will have learned and what they will acquire in combat experience with us.
A few days ago, General Namata, commander of the Joint Force, indicated on the RFI antenna that the emir of JNIM or RVIM [Jamaat Nosrat al-Islam wal-Mouslimin -Groupe de soutien à l’islam et aux musulmans], Iyad Ag Ghali, was an enemy that must be fought. But in Bamako there are dissonant voices. Do you think it is possible today to negotiate with some of the armed terrorist groups, or is this a red line??
First of all, it is not a military choice. It is a choice of politicians that starts with Malian politicians. Then there is indeed a position of principle in France which considers that we do not negotiate with terrorists. However, this does not mean that we do not negotiate with an enemy. If you want to agree one day, agree with someone you have fought, you must be able to choose the right partner with whom you should agree, the one who is representative, the one who is legitimate. And so it will one day ask the question of a political agreement that will be made with people who at one time or another have been enemies of the Barkhan force, have been enemies of Malia’s armed force. Then I will not comment on the degree of moral acceptance or the risk that we would take to negotiate with terrorists who we know are extremely ideologized and that their goal is to create a harsh Islamic state in the world. Mali, as there, is a political assessment that is not my responsibility, but which obviously poses a significant danger both to Mali and then through the risk of infection throughout Africa West and the Sahel.
You have often repeated it: there will be no military victory in Mali without the rule of law returning. Do you see anything better in the field?
What I see on the ground is the beginning of a return to certain places for civilian authorities: governors, mayors, police authorities. Objectively, there is a better one today. There is a better way in this return, perhaps not of the rule of law, but of the state, the re-establishment of some form of government in some places. It is still fragile, but it is made possible by the fact that security still returns to areas that are again a little more under the control of the Malian armed forces, which are secured by Operation Barkhane. And for me it is a positive movement.
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